There was quite a bit of talk on Twitter yesterday about new research showing that children do get infected with Covid-19 and do infect others. For more information I went to Dr John Campbell’s Youtube channel and discovered a video addressing this very question:
During the video, Dr John looked at research submitted to the JAMA network. If you click on the JAMA network link and scroll down to the very bottom of the screen, you’ll discover that JAMA stands for the Journal of the American Medical Association:
So what’s the bottom line of this research? Basically it says that children over the age of 5 have the same viral load in their nasal swabs as adults and therefore have the same ability to infect as adults:
BUT
Children from 0 – 5 were found to have a much higher viral load, meaning that they were much more infectious:
To state the bleeding obvious, this means that kindergartens and pre-school childcare MUST be closed if we’re to stop the spread of the virus. It also means that school age children are spreaders of the virus too. Given how impossible it is to maintain social distancing in school settings, this means schools must be closed as well.
Finally, although children tend to suffer less from the virus, there hasn’t been enough research done on the effect of the virus on children with co-morbidities – such as auto immune diseases. In my world, this means keeping children with asthma etc., away from any setting where they’re likely to be infected with covid-19. Better safe than very, very sorry.
Stay well,
Meeks
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NANO 2012
August 19th, 2020 at 3:24 am
I did know this Meeks and this was the subtle message in my twisted gingerbread house post. Children are vectors, they carry and spread the disease, often without having any symptoms at all. In the context of this post and message, on-line schooling is fine as a short term solution. When it is safe for the schools to re-open, then it is better from them to go back.
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August 20th, 2020 at 10:18 am
lol – yes, your Wicked Witch hiding from the kids is deliciously funny! Excuse the pun. 🙂
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August 14th, 2020 at 3:51 pm
This is scary…Definitely tough talking is required …
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August 15th, 2020 at 12:02 pm
I know the science community and those in authority are learning more about this virus every day, but this research bears out what every mother already knew – kinder and primary school are when kids seem to be constantly sick. The fact that the little ones are becoming seriously ill this time is a gift, but one we adults shouldn’t abuse.
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August 14th, 2020 at 2:40 am
Trump is pushing hard for kids to go to school and threatening school systems and states that resist. He doesn’t care in the least about kids, their teachers, or their families. It’s horrifying. One week after the state of Georgia opened their schools, they had 600 cases and had to shut the whole thing down. ARRGH!
Thanks for sharing the truth, Andrea. We can’t repeat it enough.
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August 15th, 2020 at 12:14 pm
Schools have been a bone of contention here as well. The Feds want them open so parents can go to work so the economy can tick along so the govt can STOP ‘blowing’ their conservative budget on social aid… -pulls hair and screams-
We would all have been better off to close the borders, lockdown hard for 2 months, clear the virus and then open up inside a virus-free domestic bubble. This way? Heaven knows.
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August 16th, 2020 at 4:32 am
Now Trump is talking about going for herd immunity. We can open up now, all get infected, and have a million Americans die at home. But we’ll have a great economy!
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August 16th, 2020 at 11:38 am
Dear god…seriously? I mean I had a feeling that herd immunity was behind the slow response, same as in the UK and to a lesser extent here in Australia. But to have him spout it out loud? He’s an idiot. 😦
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August 17th, 2020 at 4:11 am
I won’t start another rant. 🙂
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August 17th, 2020 at 11:48 am
-hugs- thinking of you and all my US friends. 😦
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August 16th, 2020 at 2:03 pm
I have been following your figures with increasing dismay. In fact if I dare to admit it, I have shed actual tears, having lived in America myself for a while and being very fond of you all. Getting rid of this virus seems to involve making sacrifices in the short term(We hope.)for long term gain. I have two university students studying at home. This has not been without issues but whatever sacrifices we may make are nothing compared to the cost of doing nothing.
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August 17th, 2020 at 4:16 am
I’m dismayed as well. It’s pretty bleak. We’re hoping for a change of leaderships with the next election, but assuming that happens, it’s still 5 months away. We’ll be at 400,000 deaths if we hold steady.
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August 17th, 2020 at 11:49 am
All I can say is that I hope that November is the beginning of a new era. -hugs-
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August 17th, 2020 at 12:48 pm
Me too!
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August 13th, 2020 at 10:51 pm
All true. However, we also have to weigh the OTHER risks if children are deprived of the social and mental benefits of attending school. It depends on the levels of infection in the communities. Here in Ontario we are ALMOST Covid free (less than 100 new cases in the entire province for two weeks, now – in a population of millions). I have see, first-hand, the negative effects of isolation on my grandson, age seven. He is more introverted than most and still developed depression. More social kids will suffer even more. They will also not learn the essential social skills we all need. While protecting them and those they are in contact with is crucial, so are those other concerns. It’s a balancing act, a dance that will need to be continually re-jigged as conditions change. In your Victoria schools may need to remain closed. Here in Ontario, in spite of the risks and fears of many, I support the decision to re-open schools in September. At this stage the benefits outweigh the risks.
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August 14th, 2020 at 2:56 am
I am actually a primary school teacher. I had an asthmatic son, who missed a great deal of school. I guess it helped that I am a teacher. I was always tempted to homeschool my children anyway. My experience of “socialisation” was that my children were endlessly bullied, certainly in their first school. If socialization is to be an aim of school, then a lot more emphasis needs to be placed on countering things like bullying. As teachers we have a curriculum to deliver and in all honesty I think social issues have tended to be missed.
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August 15th, 2020 at 12:11 pm
High five! I was trained as a secondary school teacher but did some emergency teaching at middle school level, and I agree, in many schools, socialisation depends on the overall ‘culture’ of the school. If the principal is strong, aware and concerned, the kids will learn to treat each other with respect. If not… 😦
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August 16th, 2020 at 1:24 am
In this instance the Principal was a lovely guy. I think he struggled to deal with a community where bullying and abuse were inate. Poweeful parental body did not seem to accept the issues. I pushed for an anti-bullying policy to be adopted but it seemed to be blocked somehow. I once approached the parental body myself about a child safety issue, only to receive a rude response and to unfortunately be proven correct some time later.
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August 16th, 2020 at 11:43 am
Unfortunately, some parents believe that bullying is character building too, especially when it comes to their sons. There’s not a lot teachers can do in that kind of culture. 😦
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August 16th, 2020 at 1:47 pm
Absolutely spot on. Thank you for putting it into words for me.
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August 16th, 2020 at 10:20 pm
I wish I could take credit for it but that’s literally what my sister-in-law was told when she complained about the bullying of her son. 😦
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August 16th, 2020 at 5:55 pm
Thank you. Our conversation has inspired my latest post.
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August 16th, 2020 at 10:12 pm
Conversation is what I love about this blogging community. -hugs-
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August 16th, 2020 at 2:20 pm
I was once told teachers in their first year of teaching have an extremely high sickness rate. One of my friends came down with chicken pox in her first year.
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August 16th, 2020 at 10:18 pm
Kids are very touchy feely. That’s one big reason why they catch everything going during kinder and primary school, including head lice. In a sense, it’s because their immune systems have so much to learn, but our obsession with hygiene may be an issue as well. Not surprised young teachers get sick. Massive viral load.
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August 15th, 2020 at 12:26 pm
Hi Yvonne. You’re right about it being a balancing act, but I’m not 100% convinced about the socialisation argument. Yes, kids do need social contact, but it has to be healthy social contact and in many schools, bullying is the norm rather than the exception. My nephew [now in his 30’s] went to a couple of ‘good’ schools that thought a bit of school yard bullying ‘built character’, and I saw it first hand when I was doing my teaching rounds. I know that was a long time ago, but the bullying has only escalated since then.
All of that is anecdotal, of course, and in your situation, reopening of schools may well be safe, but on general principles I think there could be safer ways of ensuring good social contact if your province has to shut down again. Maybe neighbourhood ‘bubbles’ or something.
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August 15th, 2020 at 10:41 pm
Yes, bullying is an issue all over the world, one that needs to be dealt with. Both my sister and I were bullied – and that was an eon ago so nothing has changed other than that the internet has made it more anonymous and therefore more sinister.That said, I still believe that in most cases the benefits still outweigh the risks for most students, providing this COVID problem is kept under control. It’s not just playing with other kids. It’s group instruction, it’s learning how to be “with” others, and a host of others that are small but add up to significant results, not the least of which is resilience. Kids need to see how the world works and how they can fit into that world. This will carry throughout their lives, in their work and in their relationships. That said, it still all depends on the level of risk from COVID where they live. As we said, it’s a balancing act, one that’s not easy to determine.
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August 16th, 2020 at 11:51 am
-sigh- I’m the same vintage as you and your sister, Yvonne, and I was bullied in my first school too. I’d been pretty outgoing until then. Not saying that was the only reason I became a ‘loner’ but it was part of the reason I hated my school years. I didn’t really learn to be happy with other people until the much more accepting culture of university.
Yes, there is a lot that kids can learn from group interactions, but not all of it is good! Another issue is that here in Australia, and possibly in remote areas of Canada as well [?] long distance learning has been a thing for decades – School of the Air.
Of course long term isolation for every child is probably not ideal.
This is why I believe we need to aim for elimination so that within a country people can live as normally as possible. Suppression just means yoyoing back and forth all the time. -sigh-
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August 13th, 2020 at 1:04 pm
Great information Meeka as usual. It was always obvious that keeping schools open woulld be a really bad idea. Schools tend to harbour every bug known to man. I believe Singapore managed to keep its schools open but I believe this was the “exception which proves the rule.” Really interesting that the under fives are so very infectious, particularly as they do not tend to have to wear masks. I understand the difficulty but I am getting tough. I believe anybody who cannot wear a mask should just be required to stay home. Sorry but my area took a particularly long time to accept the restrictions. I listened to people whinge when Daniel Andrews was reluctant to lift the first quarantine.
I am tired of all the nonsense. During the first quarantine, I had grown tired of the personal attacks on the premier for not wanting to open up. These are the very same people attacking him again. I pointed out at the time, the carnage taking place in New York and Europe. Of course, as my father would have said,”It goes in one ear and out the other.”
I think it is time for some tough talk and telling people straight that they need to learn to be a little less gullible and a little more discerning about what they listen to.
One of my friends is a former nurse. She got really exasperated with an anti-masker on Facebook. I believe there are some grim reaper type ads coming. They are long overdue.
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August 13th, 2020 at 10:49 pm
I agree. I honestly can’t see a way out of this unless we go down the NZ path of elimination/eradication. Then, if something does slip through, it /can/ be caught. This way assumes that people are going to ‘behave’ so there’ll only ever be a few infections ticking along. It’s utter BS.
I wish there were a law against spreading false info. that causes physical harm/death. Then maybe some of the idiots would just shut up.
You’re right about all those who bagged Dan Andrews during the first lockdown. Now they’re bagging him for not being perfect and micro managing every aspect of every policy. And of course, no one seems to care that the Feds allowed the aged care catastrophe to happen. All the double speak is doing my head in.
Roll on the grim reaper. Seems nothing less will do.
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August 14th, 2020 at 4:03 am
Actually thinking of one of mine when they were little, I had enough trouble keeping socks, shoes and hats on them, when we were out and about. I don’t think I would ever have been able to get out the door, if I had had to force them to wear a mask. Again maybe a public information campaign would help.
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August 15th, 2020 at 12:08 pm
lol – I remember! And no, I don’t think it’s feasible. I think we have to rethink the modern life style in total until we’re all vaccinated, or until we can eradicate the virus the way NZ and a couple of other places have done. I know NZ have had an outbreak, but it’s a small one, and they’ll plug whatever gap caused it as soon as they find it. But keeping the virus at ‘simmering’ levels is a catastrophe waiting to happen.
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