Niqabi Me: Undercover, under pressure, and unhappy.

I found this post by accident and I’m delighted that I did. East and West need to come to some sort of reasoned agreement on this issues. Part of my comment was :
Australia is a multicultural country that tries very hard to celebrate difference, but differences that diminish one sex with regard to the other diminish us all.

Please help get a respectful discussion going!

About acflory

I am the kind of person who always has to know why things are the way they are so my interests range from genetics and biology to politics and what makes people tick. For fun I play online mmorpgs, read, listen to a music, dance when I get the chance and landscape my rather large block. Work is writing. When a story I am working on is going well I'm on cloud nine. On bad days I go out and dig big holes... View all posts by acflory

9 responses to “Niqabi Me: Undercover, under pressure, and unhappy.

  • EllaDee

    Interesting post. No matter your beliefs and point of view respectful, healthy discussion and awareness of various attitudes and behaviours is a positive thing rather than closed hearts, minds and ears.
    I venture not judge or even express an opinion as it really isn’t within my realm of experience.


  • davidprosser

    While I agree with Yvonne in the main, and certainly wouldn’t wish to ban the niqab in Arabic countries if it is a religious requirement written in the Q’ran, I would expect the women who wear it to make the decision as to whether it’s their choice or an unreasonable request foisted upon them.

    On the other hand, in the West, it is sometimes necessary that we know who we’re dealing with. Driving tests, license applications, airport security,
    in court, banks etc. Since there have been occasions whereby wanted men have tried to flee justice dressed in a niqab, people have attempted to take tests for others disguised in a niqab, and other crimes have been attempted wearing such a disguise, it’s hardly surprising that so many object to the wearing of one.

    It seems strange that in places like Afghanistan a large number of women were able to practice their faith without having to wear this covering, were able to be educated to a high degree without it seeming to offend either their husbands or their Mosques until the Taliban came to power and enforced it, often killing those who didn’t comply. That leads to the question is it really a religious requirement as written in the Q’ran or something enforced by the males of the society?

    xxx Huge Hugs xxx


    • acflory

      I did a tiny bit of research on this David and apparently it’s not written in the Koran. It is a cultural/societal doctrine only. I guess you could compare it to Catholic priests accepting celibacy even though it isn’t written anywhere in the New Testament, or the Old as far as I know.
      It may, however, have some connection to the Old Testament idea that Eve sprang from Adam’s rib and was subsequently the tool used by the Devil/Snake to make Adam disobey God’s law. Methinks it’s a rather big stretch though.


      • Yvonne Hertzberger

        Mohamed lived in a time when the Middle east was a place of marauding, warring tribes. Rape of murder was, and still is, a weapon of war. When Mohamed told women to cover themselves he made it clear that women were not the reason – men were. He said men were lustful and that women were not safe from them. The covering was suggested so for their protection. Unfortunately that has been corrupted so that it is interpreted to mean that women are unclean temptresses that need to be controlled. The original intent was that the men needed to be controlled. (no, I am not Muslim)


    • Yvonne Hertzberger

      David, I agree with the security factor but there are easy ways around that. Most places have a woman on staff. That woman can have the job of taking the other aside and privately assessing her identity. It is already done in many places. As for Afghanistan and places like it – it depends on which sect of Islam you belong to. Her in Ontario we have many different sects of Mennonites – all of who have different “laws” regarding dress. Some keep head coverings of different shapes and materials, some are not allowed buttons and must use straight pins because buttons are considered “adornment”. The same differences apply to Muslim sects.

      And I agree that it must be a choice. I thought that was clear in my comments – even if that choice is to wear a niqab. Unfortunately that choice is often the result of the soicialization and culture I mentioned. I am personally acquainted with women who did not even wear any head covering who later decided, on their own, that they were more comfortable wearing at least a scarf covering their hair. Religious belief is a powerful thing. It can be what gives us strength – but it is also easily corrupted and leads to brainwashing. Where that line is crossed is hard to determine.


  • Yvonne Hertzberger

    Here is the comment I left on the original post.

    “It is impossible to separate culture from morality, custom from belief. As you say, it is a thorny issue. There is no simple answer. While I abhor the belief that women must be hidden and personally believe that it devalues them and robs them of individuality and freedom I cannot in good conscience say that my feelings do not stem from my own socialization and culture.

    So I also feel it is wrong, morally, to force women to give up their coverings. That is abuse as well because it causes them to feel exposed, sinful and unacceptable in the eyes of Allah, (called God in the Christian Faith). We claim freedom of religion is a human right. People of Faith, whatever that Faith may be, believe that the rule of God is morally superior to human law. To disobey religious law is, therefore, a greater wrong than to disobey human law. In countries that trumpet religious freedom I see a disconnect from their own beliefs when they try to force people of a different religious belief to give up their sacred customs – as long as those do not result in others losing THEIR human rights.

    Even that is not a simple statement, as we are then faced with how to interpret the connect between law and human rights.”


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